Posts Tagged ‘God’

Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord

October 23, 2016

One of my favorite verses to quote to others, and that from the Old Testament:

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”

I really like to use it in discussions about abortion, just to show any women listening or participating that the idea is not to condemn them but to get them past the things.

I also like this verse because it talks about “reasoning together”.

 

 

A List of Ways Darwinism and Materialism Hold Back Science

March 23, 2014

Darwinian evolutionary dogma (and other materialist assumptions about the universe) has held science back in at least the following ways:

* Not looking for C14 in dinosaur bones and diamonds for the same reason.

* Natural selection/survival of fittest ideas affecting fishing, hunting, conservation.

* Tonsils being unnecessarily removed.

* Spinal curvature assumptions.

* “Junk” DNA not being studied.

* Treatment of Ota Benga, Aborigines, racist implications of evolution.

* Aryan supremacy (ultimately inbreeding).

** Today “Lysenkoism” is mostly debunked, but it not only confused science in the old Soviet Union  (and I’ll betcha research would uncover some big influences in the USA too). It resulted in mass starvation in the USSR too.

** From wikipedia on “Vestigiality”, there is a paragraph (180 “vestigial organs” in the Scopes Trial!):

In 1893, Robert Wiedersheim published a list of 86 human organs that were, in his words, “formerly of greater physiological significance than at present”. Theorizing that they were vestiges of evolution, he called them “vestigial”.[10] Since his time, the function of some of these structures has been discovered, while other anatomical vestiges have been unearthed, making the list primarily of interest as a record of the knowledge of human anatomy at the time. Later versions of Wiedersheim’s list were expanded to as many as 180 human “vestigial organs”. This is why the zoologist Horatio Newman said in a written statement read into evidence in the Scopes Trial that “There are, according to Wiedersheim, no less than 180 vestigial structures in the human body, sufficient to make of a man a veritable walking museum of antiquities.”[11]

[These “vestigial structures” have ALL been proven to have currently important function for the human body. You can survive without some of them, but you can also survive without one of your arms, tooQ

In this entry wikipedia quotes Darwin on the subject, and some of those quotes look like a good logical foundation for Lysenkoism.

** Mendel’s experiments with inheritance of traits (probably) neglected. (Disproves Lysenko too)

** Belief in abiogenesis would make for misdirection in research into microbiology.

** Moronic assumptions about how human engineers would design a human body better, no doubt still warping biology studies (and students). (Like how they would assemble a human eye. -The fool says he could do better than God-)

** Wasting a (private donation to Harvard) of a million dollars to study how life came from non-life.

** The suppression of proven real good scientists like Forest Mims who embarrassed the entire NASA staff with his $300 of instruments for family research.
==> And other such blacklistings of guys with good credentials.

** Censorship of smack-on predictions based on blacklisted creationists, like Russ Humphreys’ calculations for magnetic field strength of the outer gas giants.

** Censorship of phenomena contrary to Darwinian and long-age physics predictions, like Halton Arps’ catalog of “peculiar galaxies”. It was suppressed until some Berkeley materialist believers wrote about it.

** History censorship, such as Isaac Newton’s own declarations about #1 why he did science (to inspire faith in young men), #2 why science works, and so on.

** The delay (and still suppressed media) in discovery of the statistically “quantized” distribution of red shift measurements, meaning that according to the supposed red shift-distance relationship, all the distant objects “look like” they roughly “cluster together” in concentric spheres with a relative apparent center on the Earth.

** The “apparent” physical and structural orientation of the earth’s local cosmic neighborhood that centers on the Earth. <<== This one even appeared in a Wired Magazine article. The writer went to some museum that had set up a 3-D structure with the astronomical neighborhood of galaxies surrounding the Earth. He said he was struck by this apparent orientation to Earth.

** It’s finally leaking into non-Creationist venues, but Russ Humphrey’s observation about the universe’s apparent centering on our own “neighborhood” of the universe.

** The ongoing refusal to research into what one native African tribe calls “mokele-membe”.

* Archaeology: The neglect of the Ica Stones, the carvings at Angkor (Cambodia temple), and other such things. There are more than one images of dinosaurs at that temple that was built in the 12th or 13th century. One touristy web page says there’s only one, but there are more:
http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/dinosaur-angkor-wat

* PILTDOWN MAN. -> When the Internet was still young, a self-identified “evolutionary biologist” called me an unmitigated liar for saying Piltdown man was a hoax.

* Hoeckel’s fraudulent drawings still used today in high school biology textbooks, with some very serpentine disclaimer language. (They were offered straight up to my own kids in the 1990s and past Y2K too).

//

You can lead an atheist to proof, but you can’t make him think

September 4, 2013
English: "Daniel's Prayer" (1865) by...

English: “Daniel’s Prayer” (1865) by Sir Edward Poynter, from illustrations for Dalziel’s Bible Gallery, in the Tate. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

To this: “The Atheist asks the Theist to provide proof for his assertion that this supernatural creature does in fact listen to supplications and does intercede.”

You can lead an atheist to proof, but it’s up to him to decide he really wants it.

There have been at least a half-dozen peer-reviewed studies that I have heard about (there may be others), all of them double-blind and at least one of them triple-blind (whatever that means) that showed a significant and marked correlation between “intercessory prayer” and recovery rates among the sick, as compared to the “control group”.

Those were studies of healing. BUT the very first similar such study I have seen publicized in the Loyal Royal Press (aka “Establishment Media”) was a recent one that supposedly found no significant difference. The report said nothing about how they picked the people to do the praying. In today’s faithless post-Christian culture that is a big difference.

One of them I remember reading about in an old 1954 Reader’s Digest. An organization called something like “The Institute for the Study of Prayer” did it. They had two big pots with exactly the same soil mixture and in each planted 22 seeds from the same source and batch, and watered them both with exactly the same water source.

For one pot, though, they prayed blessings over the water. For the other, they prayed a curse.

In the pot getting the “blessed” water, all 22 seeds sprouted, almost all of them (20 I think) showed especially vigorous growth.

In the pot that got the other water, only about five scraggly sprouts poked out of the ground.

Then there are the Biblical prophecies that have already been fulfilled. Besides the ones for the Messiah pointing to Jesus including the year of his crucifixion, there are many others. The city of Tyre, as foretold, was cast into the sea and not one stone was left of it when Alexander made his causeway to the island whence the inhabitants escaped, and to recent days fisherman cast their nets from it.

The rabbis spoke with Alexander the Great outside Jerusalem and showed him the prophecies in Daniel that he was coming, that the “goat” named to mean Grecia would break the Persian “ram”, but in a very rapid conquest. I don’t know if they showed him the part that said the empire would break up into four parts, and said it would be against his wishes, but that’s what happened.

That prophecy came after supplications by Daniel.

Read about the one guy who got out of the greatest aviation disaster of history (still) in Tenerife, saved by such prayers, and find the link to the youtube with the several first-person testimonies about the Nigerian pastor risen from the dead:

http://trutherator.wordpress.com/2013/09/01/god-heals-and-does-miracles/

Where was the standard for the “Word of God” before 1611?

July 23, 2013

The Word of God did surely exist somewhere as promised, say, in 1610, in one collection, possibly in Hebrew for the O.T. and Greek for the N.T. Possibly in Latin. There was not one known copy with evidence based on preservation. But the truth is I don’t know except for the promises.

That was nothing new in the history of Scripture. There was a time when a king inherited the throne, and ordered the Temple to be restored, and the priests found a copy of scriptures, hidden in the walls of the structures they were restoring. This righteous king called for repentance and to lift the scripture up again across the land.

No one could have pointed you to them, but there they were. In the case of the KJB

Casiodoro de Reina de Proel En el dominio públ...

Casiodoro de Reina de Proel

, God chose a different way to restore a collection of inspired Canon that you could point to. Therefore I agree with the use of the term Restoration Bible used by Stephen to (I presume) refer to the KJB. That’s why I also agree with the terminology of “restore God’s perfect Word” because it had lost its place.

The Word was certainly restored to its proper residence in one recognized Canon, that not only met the test by fire of its use by Spirit-filled people for more than three centuries in its language with no other translation even contemplated.

The fact of the scripture’s restoration to its place of honor with the KJB is seen in the fact that it quickly supplanted what you could call other “competing” translations, even beyond the reach of British or Anglican authority, and even beyond the “spirit-filled”. It was quickly dominant I believe even by the Calvinists of the day, the Puritans, and others.

Another evidence is the way it dominated the English language. Isaac Asimov once wrote that it was Shakespeare who stabilized the English language because the KJB was “just a translation”, which shows he doesn’t know so much about history as he puts on, or that he is “willfully ignorant”. Not for nothing he even says it, because it shows he recognized the Authorized Version/KJB as having dominance in the English language.

I can’t speak for Polish or Chinese, but Spanish certainly shows this as well. I’ve read the Casiodoro de Reina from times more or less contemporary to the KJB, and the Spanish is very, very different from the 1960 Revision, or even the 1905.

Biblical warring… / The natural family

July 10, 2013

Nothing wrong with a Bible warrior mentality, unless you’re thinking in the flesh and don’t understand metaphors. Biblical Christians fight against evil, lies, and the deceit of the devil, including the lies of those who call themselves Christians but violate the commandment to love their neighbors:

Ephesians 6:
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Ever since the apostles and disciples spread the Good News, they have been “ministering” to the needs of the world by fighting disease, fighting starvation, fighting infanticide, fighting slavery, fighting genocide, with whatever material means they have on hand to do it, but also with the one gift that changes hearts and makes the other changes possible: salvation in the name of Jesus Christ.

Now, if “military Christianity” means the warmongers among Evangelical Christians in the United States, they deserve the moniker, especially the “leaders”. The worst among them doing disservice to the Gospel are the ones demanding that Christians should do something to stop Muslims, saying they’re out to convert or kill us all. Whether they are or not is irrelevant to what Christians should do.

Brother Andrew of “Open Doors Ministries” warned Christians against going to war in the MIddle East, because, he predicted at the time, it would be disastrous for the Christians who actually live there,

and it would badly hurt the testimony of love of those Christians who are in the best position to actually win them to the religion that preaches “God is love”. Even Mosab Hassan Yousef, “Son of Hamas“, was won after the repulsion of the treatment of Muslims with Muslims in prison and was won over by the love of Christ in the Word itself: “Love thine enemies“. Islam has nothing like this.

(2) The picture of the girl is fine. There is too much not-privacy on the Internet. Once your visage is out there, it’s no take-backs. Another pic is okay, but apparently the objection shows that she’s not doing it to hide herself. The prayerful position of the girl in the picture represents her. We can all learn a lesson about caution. We don’t have to make it easy for the NSA for when they start rounding up the “dangerous” Christians.

P.S. My Mom raised us four kids, God bless her, as a single Mom. Faults and all, I loved her and appreciate it. Some do this better than others, but good can come of it. The natural, nuclear family is the ideal and the standard by which all of them are best measured, and should emulate, as much as possible providing the upbringing a father and a mother would provide.

I gratefully remember my visits with my Dad, a very fine example of a Dad. But I also remember fondly one Marvin, a “father figure” who I guess was part of the “Big Brothers” program. He took me out to ball games, bowling, gospel concerts, did “Daddy stuff” with me, an adult male figure. Rest in peace.

Believing God’s promises and the KJB is not idolatry. (Maybe “only-original-language” is, eh?)

July 9, 2013

I’m sharing my answer from another forum to this accusation:

You have made your KJB the most important article of faith. Again, I see this as very nearly bibliolatry. Very nice of you to affirm my observation.

—-
KJB believers’ foundation is the belief in the promises of God‘s word. That is what brings them to the KJBO position. This is something that has been repeated to modern version apologists over and over again, and they never seem to get past this lie that KJB believers woke up one day and just decided to reject all the other versions and worship that (whatever “that” is) instead of God. The truth is the opposite.

But try the phrase “original-language-idolatry”. A fantasy, a vain imagination, a theoretical construct. A belief that God did NOT provide for the preservation of every jot and tittle of his word in a manner consistent with clarity and that does not allow for confusion. Belief in his promises about his Word is better than trusting scribes and Pharisees. Call the KJB translators scribes if you want, just like your corrupted versions –any divergence from God’s best is corruption– but we do NOT trust in them.

You have NO BIBLICAL REASON AT ALL, just a tradition of man, to say that God did NOT preserve every jot and tittle of meaning “till all be fulfilled”. At least it’s not a wood and chaff idol. Oh wait! Nestle-Aland? Westcott Hort? Which “original language text” is YOUR idol?

In Honduras (even here) sometimes you buy honey that’s been cut with molasses. My wife can tell the difference. How can you, if you don’t know what honey really is?

God told us his words were sweeter than honey.

The God of the Bible said –and says– he would preserve his Word, not one jot or tittle would fall to the ground till all be fulfilled, and he is not the author of confusion. How can he teach “line upon line” if one line is over here (with a footnote) and the next one is over there?

Not even the most brilliant professors of theology can be sure of what something really says, according to their own doctrine!

And make no mistake. KJBO advocates do NOT NOT NOT rest their case upon an isolated faith in this particular text. It is the doctrine that believes God’s own word about preserving his Word, his own promise to preserve every jot and tittle, every bit of meaning, and he is not the “author” of confusion.

I you can’t have full conviction in a piece of God’s word, then it’s true that James 1:8 could apply, because if the foundation be shaken, who shall stand?

March 27, 1977, The biggest aviation disaster in history –to this day– took place in Tenerife, on the ground. Two aircraft slammed into each other. Some of you remember it. The fog killed visibility. 538 people died and there were more who were wounded.

I remember the reports from back then that mentioned a man who “miraculously” was completely unhurt. They didn’t mention him very much after the first couple of days and I found out why when I heard that man’s testimony.

Once upon a time I found an audio of his testimony. He took the trip instead of his business partner who had a late-minute matter come up. When the two planes hit, he said the passengers saw fire coming from the front of the plane, and people started screaming who saw the flames moving toward them.

He of course had his Bible with him. He stood straight up, all 300 pounds or so, and started waving his Bible in the air. “I’m standing on the Word! I’m standing on the Word! I’m standing on the Word!”

That’s his last memory from inside the plane, and he “blacked out”. He said he doesn’t know how, but the next thing he knew he was sitting on the top of this aircraft, to the side of a really big hole in the top of the plane –big enough for him to fit through– that was somehow directly above where his seat was.

They helped him down from there, but it is a testimony to someone who had faith in what God had promised, when it mattered. I cannot say I have “that much” faith in God’s promises, God’s word, but at least I do have faith that I can know exactly what he said, in terms that can be understood today. As he promised.

 

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

 

Martin Luther and John Calvin: “Killers”?

July 2, 2013
Disputatio pro declaratione virtutis indulgent...

Disputatio pro declaratione virtutis indulgentiarum, 95 theses (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

This is in reply to this statement found on another web site I follow:  http://jamesjpn.net/

Luther, Calvin et al the supposed stalwarts of Protestant Christianity, are wolves in my opinion and the complete opposite of the apostle Paul. They were responsible for killing people AFTER their supposed conversion and break from Catholicism. They may not be Jesuit agents but they have walked right into the Devil’s schemes.

Calvin is known to have given his enthusiastic support for an execution for heresy in Geneva, in one case I know of. That’s just one. Calvinists are very adept at defending him and I won’t address that right now. The case of Martin Luther is not so simple.

If he supported the brutal suppression as reported, this would be another flaw. Some of the peasant actions were those of going into the churches that were built with their own contributions, in the clerical “theft by fraud” scheme of the penitence payments. They began destroying those evil idols that filled those buildings.

In my opinion, Martin Luther is partially or completely exonerated by Matthew 7:20, By their fruits ye shall know them. His was the pivotal moment, at great risk to himself, to expose the clerical autocracy. His opposition to the peasants uprising, by the way,  was based on a strange and unworkable hybrid of libertarianism and authoritarianism.

Libertarianism because he opposed the stealing and looting that the peasants were apparently saying was their right, and that only voluntary sharing of goods as in Acts 2 and Acts 4 was encouraged. Share your own voluntarily, but not someone else’s by force.

Authoritarianism because he invoked a misinterpretation of Romans 13 that is common to many. People forget to consider, even Martin Luther, that not all governments are “of God“, and not all government agents are “ministers of God”. If they are not “God’s ministers” (Rom 13:6), or “ministers of good”, they don’t qualify.

Also, the takeaway from Matthew 17 is that Jesus did not have much regard for any government taxation scheme. The children of tax collectors (the ones who tell you how much you have to pay in “tribute”) “are free”, he said, meaning that taxation is a form of “not free”, or “involuntary servitude”. Because the taxation deciders make sure of their own advantage in these schemes.

It usually holds though; David referred to “the wicked” as God’s sword, meaning God uses them to implement his judgements upon the people that are known by his name.

 

 

Man’s free will and salvation and God’s sovereignty

June 22, 2013
English: Resurrection of Christ

English: Resurrection of Christ (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

 

—A Calvinist said: “Are you saying that a man can come to faith in Jesus of his own free will apart from grace? Where do you find this in the Scripture?”

 

I don’t say that, because coming to faith in Jesus Christ, whether of his own free will or not, is accepting the grace of God by definition.

 

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

If I give you a free gift, you can take it or leave it. If you reject it, your loss. If you take it, and benefit from it, you cannot say you earned anything, you cannot say that you had anything to do with having that gift at all, because it was my doing and it was not your doing. And so with salvation.

 

God says, here’s salvation. Take it or leave it. Most people leave it. I do not claim to know how it works, but God does. “God is not a man, that he should lie”. We are created in God’s image, as sovereign deciders so to speak. The gift is for everyone, “whosoever will”.

 

If you concede that man has a free will that chooses salvation, but God is the one that chooses to put that will into his heart, this is a squishy deal. It is no better logic than to say that God chooses you for salvation because of the fact that you chose to receive the free gift.

 

It’s a mutually exclusive argument.

 

You can “accept” man’s free will in accepting salvation all you want to say you do, but then you contradict yourself by saying he made it impossible for them to accept salvation. Besides, you have to say that God decided to create the human race so he could throw the vast majority of them into hell, since he picks out some to save.

 

But then alas, that contradicts this verse that tells us the original purpose of hell:

 

Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

 

“They that understand among the people shall instruct many”

April 20, 2013
Entrance to Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensaco...

Entrance to Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola, Florida. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

If the 144,000 were not saved before the Tribulation, then there are pitifully and poorly prepared to be these: “They that understand among the people shall instruct many”.

God is not a “respector of persons”, so says his word, and the kingdom of God was taken from the “Jew according to the flesh” when Jesus said the kingdom was “taken from you and given to a nation bringing for the fruit thereof”.

The spirit quickeneth, the flesh profiteth NOTHING, “Say not ye we have Abraham to our father”, “Who is a Jew” asked Paul and then explained VERY CLEARLY who would inherit the promises made to Abraham. And that the promises to Abraham that “in thy seed” shall all the Earth was blessed came to fruition with the birth, life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The genealogies list the lineage from Adam to Jesus Christ, so as to show that Jesus was fully human and descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and David, and of the tribe of Judah, literally. The records that they kept during those days provided another proof that Jesus was and is the Messiah. Now, with the records and the record-keeping dissolved into the ether together with the now diluted biological line, the “Jews according to the flesh” are not much more homogenous as such biologically than many nations on the planet, and they are surely no more Jewish than Ruth or Rahab or Uriah the Hittite.

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

In today’s world, there’s no way you can sort out which Jew-according-to-the-flesh (supposedly) is which tribe, and in fact, they have mixed Arab blood, Ethiopian, Persian, Turkish, and especially European. Even Biblically, Rahab and Ruth share in the Abrahamic line to Messiah, and there are plenty of tribes from the region that intermarried with the Jews in those days. Maybe half of David’s Mighty Men! Jesus made this point too!

So there is another purpose in the numbering of “them which were sealed” as 144,000. I do believe they are probably leaders especially anointed for leading the sheep during the Tribulation. But it would not be “God’s nature” to let babes lead babes with no spiritual guidance. The Word says so:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Lots of people who had before believed the Rapture was before the Tribulation will eventually come to reconsider, because they don’t always just blindly follow Establishment Christianity.

Kent Hovind and many others have studied the issue and changed in position . So did the ones that made this video to explain themselves:

Hal Lindsey‘s first book, The Late Great Planet Earth, was one of the first on Bible prophecy I read as I was led to faith in Christ and God prepared me to serve him in for street witnessing and missionary work. He introduced the book explaining that he approached the subject from scratch, meaning threw out everything he’d heard and started studying straight from scripture.

He had scriptures that drew an obvious straightforward parallel to events and times, as I remember it. Verses for all of it. I don’t remember enough detail to compare to what I know now after doing the same thing as a Berean. But he candidly admitted in his chapter about the Rapture that he had NOT found ANY clear scripture to support the event as coming before the Tribulation, but he believed it anyway. As many theology doctorates at the time, he used the prop that it was not in “God’s nature” to make us go through the Tribulation. The “evidence” is some of the incidents where God’s leading or prophecy saved his saints.

It’s a stretch to make that leap of logic. But even then he did not realize the disconnect between (1) the plagues of the trumpets and (2) the plagues of the vials of the Wrath of God that come with (after) the last trump that shall sound. The last vial of the wrath of God is when we return back down with Jesus (“saints with him”) and he descends “with a shout”.

More Post-Tribulation truth

April 16, 2013
English: photograph of Cyrus Ingerson Scofield...

English: photograph of Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (Scoundrel and deceiver of the gullible)

Hal Lindsey is trying to say that Sodom and Godmorrah were types of the coming Tribulation, because God took Lot and his family out before judgment.

“Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.”

But God does that, because although Jesus said we’d have tribulation, we do not get the worst of the plagues at the end of the three and a half year period of Tribulation.

The Hebrews were still in Egypt when the ten plagues hit, and then they were taken out. The prophets were still in Israel when it fell to Babylon. The priests (and the faithful) were still in Jerusalem when they believed the prophets enough to welcome Alexander and the troops to Jerusalem. He was so satiated by the prophecies he let them keep all their arms and legs and money. The Jewish Christian faithful –some of them– were still in Jerusalem when Rome came and scattered them all to everywhere else.

Sodom and Gomorrah, God had promised Abraham. Lot had a “righteous soul”. Their judgment and fire and brimstone was total, universal, not one soul left alive.

Some judgments, we get warnings. There will be refuges for some Christians even during the Tribulation. Not just the jungle.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

But here’s where we agree. For sure, the Lord WILL take us up BEFORE the worst of plagues. That’s what we call the Wrath of God.

First, the Tribulation. At the end of that, at the last trumpet, “Rapture”. Then the vials of the wrath of God are poured out upon the earth, the absolute worst of the plagues. With the last of those vials, that’s Jesus Christ and his saints with him on white horses visiting Armageddon on the Beast and his minions.

And even so, some will live through even the Wrath into the “Millenium”, the thousand-year reign of Jesus Christ.

All the verses are in context:

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

But when one of them declares something plainly, it’s best to go with that one:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The only way to dismiss Matthew 24 is to cut it out of the Bible if you’re a Gentile, like the 19th entry widows’ swindler and convicted embezzler Cyrus Scofield in America, and his contemporary, the hustler of spiritual intellectuals in the old staid kingdom of the British Empire, John Darby. John Darby hated the Bible so much he wrote his own Bible and called it a “translation”.

The two of them popularized the newly invented pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine on the two sides of the Atlantic.

The memo apparently didn’t make it to South Africa. An evangelist came to Miami once in the 1980s, and he said he never heard of such a thing as a pre-Tribulation Rapture until he came to the States. I’m sure the Americans have spread it more since then though, and history has been revised.

The one (two?) early-church quotes I’ve seen, rare as ken’s teeth, are ambiguous at best. And they don’t hold a candle to Paul’s own admonitions in the epistles that the day of of the Lord isn’t coming until the Son of Perdition is revealed first. Their talk would not have been about the Judgment, they’re looking for the Lord’s coming back.

There will be some places that serve as refuge during the Tribulation. He will set up in Israel, but even some players in the neighborhood

Daniel 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Revelation 13 says all nations, tribes and languages, so that means it’s a UN-NWO thing, or its twin. But from Daniel 11 we see he has his hands full with international intrigues, conspiracies, and nations that don’t want to buckle.

They are probably planning on neutralizing the United States with a civil war and, according to more prophecies, on “restoring order” with help from other nations. The USA gets a dose of its own interventionist medicine, you might say, the most recent generations (of Christians, too) being led to war.

They will probably bring America down a few notches, they can sure create havoc with their fiat currency whip and their agents. But Americans are a rebellious bunch and will not fade away quietly.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.