Archive for the ‘KJB’ Category

Believing God’s promises and the KJB is not idolatry. (Maybe “only-original-language” is, eh?)

July 9, 2013

I’m sharing my answer from another forum to this accusation:

You have made your KJB the most important article of faith. Again, I see this as very nearly bibliolatry. Very nice of you to affirm my observation.

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KJB believers’ foundation is the belief in the promises of God‘s word. That is what brings them to the KJBO position. This is something that has been repeated to modern version apologists over and over again, and they never seem to get past this lie that KJB believers woke up one day and just decided to reject all the other versions and worship that (whatever “that” is) instead of God. The truth is the opposite.

But try the phrase “original-language-idolatry”. A fantasy, a vain imagination, a theoretical construct. A belief that God did NOT provide for the preservation of every jot and tittle of his word in a manner consistent with clarity and that does not allow for confusion. Belief in his promises about his Word is better than trusting scribes and Pharisees. Call the KJB translators scribes if you want, just like your corrupted versions –any divergence from God’s best is corruption– but we do NOT trust in them.

You have NO BIBLICAL REASON AT ALL, just a tradition of man, to say that God did NOT preserve every jot and tittle of meaning “till all be fulfilled”. At least it’s not a wood and chaff idol. Oh wait! Nestle-Aland? Westcott Hort? Which “original language text” is YOUR idol?

In Honduras (even here) sometimes you buy honey that’s been cut with molasses. My wife can tell the difference. How can you, if you don’t know what honey really is?

God told us his words were sweeter than honey.

The God of the Bible said –and says– he would preserve his Word, not one jot or tittle would fall to the ground till all be fulfilled, and he is not the author of confusion. How can he teach “line upon line” if one line is over here (with a footnote) and the next one is over there?

Not even the most brilliant professors of theology can be sure of what something really says, according to their own doctrine!

And make no mistake. KJBO advocates do NOT NOT NOT rest their case upon an isolated faith in this particular text. It is the doctrine that believes God’s own word about preserving his Word, his own promise to preserve every jot and tittle, every bit of meaning, and he is not the “author” of confusion.

I you can’t have full conviction in a piece of God’s word, then it’s true that James 1:8 could apply, because if the foundation be shaken, who shall stand?

March 27, 1977, The biggest aviation disaster in history –to this day– took place in Tenerife, on the ground. Two aircraft slammed into each other. Some of you remember it. The fog killed visibility. 538 people died and there were more who were wounded.

I remember the reports from back then that mentioned a man who “miraculously” was completely unhurt. They didn’t mention him very much after the first couple of days and I found out why when I heard that man’s testimony.

Once upon a time I found an audio of his testimony. He took the trip instead of his business partner who had a late-minute matter come up. When the two planes hit, he said the passengers saw fire coming from the front of the plane, and people started screaming who saw the flames moving toward them.

He of course had his Bible with him. He stood straight up, all 300 pounds or so, and started waving his Bible in the air. “I’m standing on the Word! I’m standing on the Word! I’m standing on the Word!”

That’s his last memory from inside the plane, and he “blacked out”. He said he doesn’t know how, but the next thing he knew he was sitting on the top of this aircraft, to the side of a really big hole in the top of the plane –big enough for him to fit through– that was somehow directly above where his seat was.

They helped him down from there, but it is a testimony to someone who had faith in what God had promised, when it mattered. I cannot say I have “that much” faith in God’s promises, God’s word, but at least I do have faith that I can know exactly what he said, in terms that can be understood today. As he promised.

 

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

 

Why the King James Bible is the standard

January 6, 2013
May - King James Version of the Bible.

May – King James Version of the Bible. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

In the 20th and 21st century we cannot find another such group as the group of scholars that translated the King James Bible, in an environment that encouraged, even compelled, a devout respect for the word of God, that rivaled Moses’ awe at the burning bush.

Without even getting into the arguments over what Greek text to use. I mean you got Westcott and Hort and other such ilk that negotiated over land and sea to “rescue” an abomination in a trash basket that became a fake Greek “Bible” (haha wink wink) and got another one from the deep dark dungeons of the Vatican library.

That’s one BIG reason God would not expect us to trust a Greek standard.

===> WOULD GOD USE TRANSLATION? WOULD HE PROMISE THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE OF THE KJB? (WHY NOT CHINESE, SPOKEN [Editor’s note:
natively] BY MORE PEOPLE THAN ENGLISH?)

FIRST, God works providentially through his “created means”?. He also gets to pick the standard and intervene at his own whim. It’s not very “providential” if you get a babble of confusion.

There are at least a DOZEN translations in the Bible and clearly exposed as such. A short list of only a few (there are plenty more):

#1. Joseph’s conversations with the Pharoah,

#2 the record of conversations between the patriarchs’ families and their neighbors in Canaan,

#3 Lot in Sodom,

#4 Nehemiah and his king and later his detractors,

#5 Daniel’s pronouncements to the Babylonians and the Persians,

#6 the sign Pilate placed on the cross pronouncing Christ the “king of the Jews” in THREE different languages translated as such in the Gospels,

#7 and “providentially” speaking ALL KINDS of things in a lot of different languages while they were in the Upper Room.
If God caused the writing of the New Testament to appear in Greek as a standard, early enough A.D. at least, why would he do that? Providentially speaking, it makes ALL KINDS of sense that he would engineer a standard Greek-language collection for all the OBVIOUS reasons that He also would OBVIOUSLY want the world of the 20th and 21st century to have one standard Word of God and not want it to be Koine Greek.

After all, if there is any “providence” involved in today’s Bible, it surely does not look like it with a hundred different “versions” of the Bible. Call the variations, variants, perversions, those would be better words.

Which Bible to use? The cafeteria version (pick one you like)?

And what group of scholars in the 20th or 21st centuries can lay claim to the extent of respect for the word of God like the scholars of the KJB, in the supportive culture of the time, and with the support they needed?

Who can say that our generation of this wicked world of today is even capable of doing better than the generation of the culture and society that cultivated such giants of both science and Biblical research as Isaac Newton?

How can you know what phenomenologically occurred? And you can’t find even one verse to back the claim that God would never want us to have a specific text as a “perfect representation of God’s pure word”? Or that if he could he would refuse to do so?

Because my Bible talks about “EVERY word” (caps mine):

And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every [word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.- Deu 8:3

Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him.-Proverbs 30:5

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.-Luke 4:4

God is not the author of confusion – I Corinthians 14

Wherefore let him that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue pray that he may interpret.-1 Cor 14:13

This next one is a doozy for a Bible-confusion cure:

If

any man speak in an [unknown] tongue, [let it be] by two, or at the most [by] three, and [that] by course; and let one interpret. – 1Corinthians 14:27

Pop quiz: Let HOW MANY interpret? How many again?

One interpretation. One. The mark is “in” the right hand or it is “on”. Do you pick one, or find out which one God has picked for you?

The question is also what would God do? Would he have five different versions?

You challenge us to give you verses where God promises that the English of the KJB is the perfect translation, when there are more speakers of Chinese (as a first language) than any other?

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I MADE THIS LIST, and some forum participants in other venues I’ve sent it to talk like they never saw it.

#1. English is recognized by everyone in the world as THE international language more than any other, bar none. Chinese may be spoken as native tongue but how many Mandarins are there, really? Cantonese is not Mandarin like Portuguese is not Spanish.

#2. FLUENT English, enough for rapid-fire communication in an emergency, is THE minimum requirement for ALL air traffic controller at EVERY ONE of ALL international airports in the world, without exception.

#3. English is the international language of business, and is the most popular language to learn in China.

#4. English is spoken by more people in the world probably than Chinese, because English is the number one choice in learning a second language by non-native English speakers.

#5. English is the overwhelmingly dominant language of the Internet.

#6. English is THE language for “hackers”. Eric S. Raymond, of the Open Software Foundation, reluctantly included GOOD English as an absolute requirement for anybody in the world who wanted to be a hacker (in the good sense of the word), because hackers who spoke other first languages demanded it for the benefit of aspirants.

#7. English is THE language for following developments and history in the medical field. Doctors in Latin America that try to stay current with new techniques, medicines, surgeries, programs read ENGLISH-language journals.

#8. English is acting like it’s on a stealth campaign to infiltrate any language in the world. Hondurans think “anyway” is a word in Spanish and after a big dinner they are “full”, Dominicans ask for a “sandwich”, and the French government has to order the French to speak French to expunge English!

#9. No other language has had the unique juxtaposition of conditions as occurred in the earliest years of the 17th century in the context of a culture and society that celebrated the Word, and freed from Rome and in a way still finding its way without an agreed authority like the KJB became.

#10. There is NOT ONE verse that anybody can offer that says God will never have just one standard text as his word, BUT anyone who reads the word and takes it to heart cannot but see that as a presumption that underlies the entire whole of God’s word! Why would God cause intellectual and unending confusion over what he said? If little things like this don’t matter, why does the word of God say they do?

If God says the world was created in six days, he doesn’t mean “maybe” six days. If his word says six hundred threescore and six, it doesn’t mean six hundred thirty-six.

Modern version writers do err, not knowing the scriptures or power of God

November 8, 2012
English: Apostles receive the gift of tongues ...

English: Apostles receive the gift of tongues (Acts 2) (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

It matters not that the learned scribes and Pharisees do err, not knowing the Scriptures they so self-righteously claim to understand so well, just like the Saducees:

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

They just don’t believe them, they can’t believe the power of God to give us ONE modern-language standard Bible by which to measure all others.

For God speaketh once, yea twice, [yet man] perceiveth it not. – Job 33:14

The entire chapter of I Corinthians 14 is all about speaking tongues in part (Paul says “I speak with tongues more than ye all”, in fact – 1 Cor 14:18), but emphasizes the importance of bearing witness to the lost, NOT in tongues they cannot understand, but in tongues they DO understand.

And note this important fact: the gifts he was talking about, with prophecy and interpretation, are meant for the lost sheep, because the lost sheep does not understand an unknown tongue.

I believe in the gift of tongues, but the word says covet rather to prophesy, even as it also says –note this now all you tongue-mockers—“Forbid NOT to speak with tongues”

BUT imagine now.. If God thought it important that listeners hear the word interpreted in the spirit and by the spirit with the aid of gifts of the spirit, even then, when they even had the Hebrew and some of the Greek scriptures, HOW MUCH MORE today, in this wicked generation, would he want us to have a reliable, inspired canon in languages understood better by this generation?

After all, if you rely on THE Greek and THE Hebrew, what kind of foundation BUILT UPON THE SAND is THAT today? Consider about even today’s Sanhedrin, full of scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees, Essenes and Zealots, and even a few “certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists” who “adjure” by the Jesus “whom Paul preacheth” (lots of New Agers call him “lord” and “master”). Even these over-educated graduates who are bloated with degrees of man’s wisdom and man’s praise, even they cannot agree on which Greek and Hebrew to use, let alone what it says.

What kind of Word of God is THAT?

HOW can you say the Word of God is infallible. You can SAY “the original tongues” but you don’t HAVE any “in the original tongues”.

So God just left us in the dark to figure out how to light the candle to put the pieces together?

Somebody scoffed at the idea of following the leading of the Holy Spirit, but then they claim the leading of the Holy Spirit for Bible translators that give us a cafeteria choice of a hundred different contradicting voices. They should learn something from the simple fishermen and publicans and even a Pharisee who said that he counted all that “as DUNG” that he might win Christ.

We even have these Sanhedrin elites (the Bible calls them “rulers”) preaching to masses of listeners that they “like” this version or that one or the way this one says it better.

How about the way GOD says it?

Let’s ask God about this, whether he wants his word in DEAD languages or living languages?

He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err–Mark 12:27

Think about that. These were guys that had the entire Torah memorized and yet Christ told them they did “GREATLY err, not knowing the scriptures” and “neither the power of God”.

There’s a whole lot more where that came from, but let’s remember 1 Corinthians 14 again:

1 Cor 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

31 For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.

32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.

33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Back when I still thought it might be okay to use other modern translations for the benefit of ESL speakers, and it wasn’t so bad, what clinched it for me was the fact that GOD IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION.

KJBO-critics readily agree to this, by mouth, but then the next step is to wonder why God would let the most important element of our lives by which we have to judge EVERYTHING else, why would he leave that to the deceit of our own cacophony of confusing voices and minds?

Over the years, as I have seen the examples of the fruits of this confusion multiply in its direct effect, it gets more and more obvious that God would leave us with one voice for his Word.

Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

It’s natural to differ in doctrine, but at least we should realize that God would not leave us with 100 different interpretation in the same language, like the scriptures say, spiritual leaders are supposed to have discernment to sort one from another, not just cower before the alphabet soup credentials of some scribe.

King James Bible and Revelation 17:6

July 8, 2012
The title page to the 1611 first edition of th...

The title page to the 1611 first edition of the Authorized Version Bible. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

In another venue, I ran across another misguided criticism of the King James Bible.

Somebody objected to the use of the word “admiration” describing John’s attitude in looking upon the Great Whore of Babylon.

And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.- Rev 17:6

It’s amazing that so many people today who hardly know any Biblical languages think they can criticize the gigantic intellects of the KJB translators, who lived in a time where they were not distracted by hours of movies and TV programs and national sports competitions and World Cups, but learned those languages as children and continued through their academic careers.

The translators for the modern English translations, on the other hand, do have several years of language instruction behind them, but they still cannot compete with the fluency of those KJB scholars.

Almost none of the other English-language translations have that wording. They replace it with “great amazement”, “complete amazement”, “greatly astonished”, “marveled”, “great wonder”.

The mistake all these people are making is that they are trying to save the Bible from saying something wrong. The Bible has no need of this.

This is a mistake they also make in Revelation 13, when they put the mark of the Beast “on” the right hand or forehead. That’s because the first word listed in English as a translation for the word in Greek in almost all lexicons, is “on”. But the King James Bible translation committees knew their Koine Greek much better than today’s dumbed-down college graduates, and doctors in divinity. They realized that the “mark” was not external; the Greek word was for an incision, or a groove, a rut, something cut down into the skin.

A tattoo might partially fit that bill, but since the KJB scholars were actually fluent in their Greek and could compose prose and carry on casual conversations in it, they knew that the better fit in English is “in”.

Now we have this word “admiration” in Revelation 17:6. The modern translators want to save John (and their Bible) from any positive reaction in John to the Great Whore.

But that’s not necessary, in my opinion. As I write, I know of two opinions explaining John’s admiration. A fellow KJB Bible believer offered his interpretation, who agrees that God speaks with “one voice”, just as Paul wrote that he would have the church speak “with one voice”.

His belief is that John was admiring at the calamities this Whore would suffer from the judgments of God. I do not find that satisfactory.

Remember, John is not exactly perfect! Duh! See what we find in Revelation 19:10:

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

So what I think about this word “admiration” here is that John had a reaction that the rest of the chapter describes as almost universal on the Earth.

It’s not a stretch. We see today in the United States all across the country, especially every July 4th, there are evangelicals, Baptists, Christians of all doctrines, who speak of how much they admire the “exceptionalism” of the United States. They hold her up as nation “chosen by God”, and repeat the mantra that it is a “Christian nation“, despite the fact that she has forgotten God, and is backslidden, and has become a proselytizer of wickedness, and just like the Great Whore, has dazzled the world through the sorceries of her media and entertainment.

See, it is too easy to admire the United States, and the products of its culture and its materialism. Even among those who complain the most about it, who enjoy the abundance of its riches, will lament its demise when it goes.

Certainly God “setteth up one, and putteth down another”, and He most assuredly blessed the nation for the Christian core of its culture and life at its founding. But it is no longer. It is no longer Christian any more than the Israel of Ahab and Jezebel was godly.

I think John was quite likely overcome in the hypnotic dazzle of the effect of this Great Whore, and we see in the very next verse that the messenger of God gently brings him back to reality:

Rev 17:7  And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

This is actually one of the greatest strengths of the KJB: these men of God revered the Word so much that they just translated the word “as is” without trying to guess at what it “really” meant in their own minds. Instead of making a best guess at the Hebrew word for “behemoth”, which they did not know, they transliterated it. No “hippo”, no “rhino”, none of that. Now we understand he was talking about a dinosaur.

“Wherefore didst thou marvel?” Not quite a rebuke, and using the word “marvel” instead of “admire” now to reduce the sting. “God knoweth our frame”, and he is quick to understand and forgive much worse.

Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.- Isaiah 55:7

 

If you are “guided by Christ” you know he will not contradict the scripture.

April 12, 2012

ALL studies are guided by the metaphysical foundations of whatever the student or scholar believes, they are 100% inseparable. BUT it is still the duty to know why you believe something, or else “get out”, so you can be one of those Christ talks about that needs healing.

The thing is, every one without exception who actually is guided by Christ will not put a question mark on the word, but like Christ said “My word is truth”, and like it says in Isaiah 8, “To the word and to the testimony, if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them”.

Otherwise, every man will “do what is right in his own eyes”, and look where that got us, I mean “Christians“.

How did that word “Easter” get into the Bible?

April 1, 2012

The word “Easter” by 1611 had its own meaning in English as the day to celebrate, commemorate, the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

How did the Greek god Apollos get in the Bible?

Titus 3:13 Bring Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey diligently, that nothing be wanting unto them.

Every anti-KJB‘er that criticized “Easter” in the Bible contradicts himself every time he names a day of the week in English: Sun-‘s Day, Moon Day, Tiw’s Day, Woden’s Day, Thor’s Day, Frigga‘s Day, or Saturn‘s Day.

Gimme a break. And don’t ever utter the word “volcano” ever again, got that? Not for nothing the alien in the first Star Trek had that slight resemblance to Satan too! A Vulcan!

OH and are you a Creationist? Make sure when you’re explaining Creation Science to a “sheep” you’re trying to help into the fold, that you never utter the word Jupiter, Saturn, Mars, Uranus, Neptune, Venus, or Mercury either. And don’t use the names of constellations either, it’s too easy to get the name of a god there too. Big Dipper, okay. Little Dipper, okay.

And you think you’re safe with all that? Watch out with names of towns. There are Christians that preach the Gospel in the Australian city of Darwin, I’m not sure. Not exactly a god, but he’s at least a High Priest of Wickedness.

Oh speaking of which the anti-Jehovah’s Witnesses make hay of the fact that the word sounds like the pagan goddess Astra, and the season was a time for pagan festivities all the way back to Babylon. Well, what do you know? Herod and wife were from neighboring tribes and as pagan as they come…

Are you a computer tech? Do you repair old printers like the Xerox Diablo line? I hate the fact “somebody” early on used the word “daemon” for the server programs that make the Internet work, but once in a rare occasion I’ve had to refer to the word so the other guy would know what I was talking about.

But that’s just me.

KJB Clarifications: Answers to Questions

March 2, 2012
Bible

Bible (Photo credit: Sean MacEntee)

Rich Wendling says he doesn’t understand why anybody would be KJBO and he asks some questions in his blog:

Theological Positions I Don’t Understand, Part 1:

http://richwendling.wordpress.com/2012/02/14/theological-positions-i-dont-understand-part-1/

Apparently he has had people in his life who used to take a KJB-Only position but have changed. The sad thing is that this is more an indication that they themselves did not understand the reasons why it may be God‘s position, because they have moved away from that understanding.

There is a LOT more to insisting on the KJB as THE standard for Christians than just tradition.

Let’s take his questions in raw form, as is:

#1. There are several different texts used in Bible translation.  How do we know the texts upon which the King James was based are inerrant?

The supremacy of the KJB does not just depend on its based-on text, the Textus Receptus, which is also known as The Majority Text, as it comprises about 95 percent of the manuscripts and codexes from ancient times that exist today of the New Testament. The Hebrew text used for the Old Testament is for most translations the Mazoretic, which is pretty much agreed to by all scholars as best representing the originals.

There are two main body of texts. The Majority Text, which is majority for getting the most respect from the earliest Christians in most ancient times, the text the Byzantines-then-Greek Orthodox never gave up.

But we must understand anyway that today there is absolutely no existing “original” text of any book or part of the Bible in existence today. What we have are multiple generations of copies of copies. So when any of the modern version advocates or anti-KJB commenters talk about “only the originals are inspired”, what are they talking about?

Because they do not know WHAT they are talking about, because there are NO existing “original autographs” anywhere in the world today, those are long gone on the dust heap of history. So by their own claims, they have NO BASIS to back up what they say about fidelity to the so-called “originals”.

But it’s a good question, How do you know? There are good reasons for the Textus Receptus over the Alexandrian texts, among other things being that the Alexandrian texts claimed as basis and used in modern versions h ave bigger differences among themselves than they do from the Majority Text.

Another is “By their fruits ye shall know them”.

#2. How can any translation be inerrant, since we don’t know what some Hebrew and Greek words used in the Bible actually mean?  How could they have been translated correctly?  For example, the Hebrew word תיבת or teiveh only appears twice in the Old Testament.  It is the word for Noah’s ark, and the word for Moses’ baby basket.  Nobody knows exactly what it means, though.

“Nobody knows exactly what it means” today, maybe, but this is another evidence of the excellent knowledge of the 70 or so brilliant scholars that worked on the King James Bible. These are people who had a dedicated, sincere love for the Lord, and at the same time did not lack for fluency in the Biblical languages. They wrote prose in those languages, they could hold debates in these languages, they could have revived them in a way similar to the Hebrew spoken today in Israel, except that their Greek would have been closer to the ancient Koine.

But they did not manifest the hubris, the pride, or the guesswork of the modern translators when it came to a word that they really did not understand.

For example, when they came across the Hebrew word “behemoth” in the book of Job, they did not take a wild guess like your modern versions. “Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.” -Job 40:15. They didn’t even add the misleading NIV footnote saying it could be a hippo or an elephant, which between the lines says “your guess is as good as ours”.

But the “elephant” guess is WORSE today than even just treating it like the KJB does, because it’s a sign of unbelief.

No the KJB scholars did not know the word so they transliterated it, and if you read the text you’ll understand it’s the description of a dinosaur without doubt. But the modern graduate of the dumbed-down schools of today cannot believe Genesis, they do not believe the Bible cover to cover, so they guess at something else.

#3. A related problem is that there are many Hebrew and Greek words for which we do know the meaning, but there is no corresponding English word with exactly the same meaning.  How can any translation in any language be inerrant?

Let’s explain by example.

Revelation 13: 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Note that word “in”, as in “in their right hand”. The NKJV, NIV, NLT, that is really ALL the modern translations replace the word “in” with “on”.

At the following link find some amazing insights into the guiding hand of God and the expertise of the KJB translators in using the word “in” instead of the misleading “on”, and the wild perversion of the word with the word “tattoo” in some:

http://www.libertytothecaptives.net/hinton_rev_13_16.html

From John Hinton: The preposition epi can also mean in, to, at, with, along with, and a number of other similar meanings. It must be read in context before it is translated, and unlike the correctors of today, the KJV translators were able to do that. They did, and they realized that a xaragma, which is translated as mark, involves a scratching or etching into the skin. This, we could imply, would include injections, although the idea of injections was not known when the text was written. Any philologist of even meager ability realizes that prepositions cannot be put into neat little boxes. They virtually never translate perfectly from one language to another. For instance, if we were to make a word for word translation of “turn the light on” or “turn the light off” into any foreign language, we would not be understood at all. For another example, when one learns a preposition in Arabic like ‘ala, the meaning of “on” will be learned first. If we were to try to translate it as “on” in every instance, we would make a complete mess out of the language, because ‘ala means a whole lot more than just “on”, and it frequently requires either a lot of experience or a lot of thought to discern what it means in a given passage. I am sure that there is not a language in the world that uses prepositions that does not have other examples. The translators of old put their discernment to work when they translated epi; the modern version pseudo-translators did not.”

That’s why he felt compelled to introduce the above paragraph with this commentary:

Revelation 13:16 is one of those verses that fakes and second-rate Greek scholars use to puff themselves up, and it requires only the most elementary level of study. Yes, indeed, when epi is used as a preposition it is most often translated as “on” just as all dictionaries will tell us. I did learn this the very first day that I began studying koine Greek, and probably learned it the first day that I began studying Greek twenty some years ago when my focus was on Modern Greek. This is as basic as it gets, so why do these Bible “correcting” pipsqueaks think that these great scholars of old, who were far more educated than they will ever be, did not know the most common meaning of epi? This is not just ignorance, but the worst kind of arrogance. The fact that they chose not to translate epi as “on” demonstrates that they knew something the modern quasi or pseudo-scholar does not know. These 53 men (the 54th died early) knowingly translated or approved of the translation of epi as “in” in its context for a reason.

#4. Even if it were possible to have a perfect, inerrant translation – how do we know it’s the King James?

That’s the best question yet. You can just follow the word itself for this one, even the modern perversions haven’t been able to cover up the Biblical basis for this.

While we’re into this one, keep in mind that the modern translators have absolutely no Biblical basis whatsoever to say that God cannot have inspired a translation for modern times. None. Their “Biblical” objections are actually ad hoc character assassinations mostly, and the use of the word “cult” as pejorative, and other irrelevant noise.

God promised in Psalm 12:8 to keep his pure words preserved, as silver purified in the furnace and tried seven times.

The most important thing God has to tell us, to show us, is his word. Some anti-KJBO screeds take exception to Psalm 12, saying it means something else. Even based on their mouthings, even if you think it’s a promise to preserve the poor, what do you think is more valuable to God but the word. After all, that’s Jesus without the flesh (John 1:1)

God knew that English would be the standard language around the world in today’s troubled times. It is the international language of commerce, trade, diplomacy, business, journalism, science, technology, and as a software developer I can tell you that ALL programming languages are based on English. To be a real hacker, take it from Eric Steven Raymond, one of the original group that invented the word at MIT in the earliest computing days:

http://tinyurl.com/2t9ab

“As an American and native English-speaker myself, I have previously been reluctant to suggest this, lest it be taken as a sort of cultural imperialism. But several native speakers of other languages have urged me to point out that English is the working language of the hacker culture and the Internet, and that you will need to know it to function in the hacker community.”

At every international airport in the world, if you cannot speak fluent English enough to handle fast-talking emergencies, you cannot be an air traffic controller. I’ve lived in Latin America, and doctors follow developments in medicine in the English journals.

That’s merely evidence that it would be most likely according to God’s desire to have us “make disciples of all nations”, to use English.

If it hadn’t have been ‘er, who’d have been ‘er, as the saying goes. If not the KJB, which? Every criticism of the KJB that I have ever seen, every one, without exception , has been itself flawed and has proven to be without merit.

God is not the author of confusion. There are more than 100 English language translations and “paraphrases” oday on sale. I Corinthians 14 says God is not the author of confusion, and it’s talking about interpretation of tongues.

Can God inspire a translation? There are at least a dozen places in scripture that were obviously first written as translations from a different language, including Joseph’s conversations in the Egyptian, Daniel’s in Babylonian, and “King of the Jews”, and modern translators claim that those original translations were inspired, so they agree that a God can guide a translation.

There is internal consistency in the King James, it does not contradict itself. Doctrine testifies to it. In the King James you put out a heretic from fellowship, in the NIV you put out Jesus, because it says to remove anybody who is “divisive”.

#5. Even if the King James Bible was inerrant in 1611, when it was written, how can it be inerrant now, since the English language has changed so much in the last 400 years?  Many English words do not mean the same thing in today’s English as they did in 1611 English.

The King James Bible kept the English language stable over 400 years, after its previous erratic wanderings. The KJB is just as understandable today as then. A lot of the words that have been called “archaic” by people who did not know better are simply a matter of simply learning English, not archaic at all.

Along those lines, this is one complaint about the “thee”s and “thou”. But those words had gone generally out of use by the 13th or 14th century. The reason those words are in the KJB is for accuracy. It distinguishes the second person singular pronoun from the second person plural. There are a number of passages where this makes much difference.

Understanding the Bible, getting help, and translations

February 26, 2012

Someone wrote elsewhere:

….I have a son that has the same issues. He gets 2 verses read and has a headache and during that reading the words move and letters do jumping jacks. I have a question for you. Are you going to let MAN tell you what translation of the Bible to read and cause you to no longer be able to take comfort in the words of God Most High?


Rich has nothing to be frustrated about. I’ve had my own frustrations.

I tested out for gifted classes and was always good in spelling and vocabulary, and I am sure I was saved a child in the church where my Dad was pastor. But I went back to reading the Bible after I met some “Jesus people” and could not understand almost anything that I opened up random until I actually joined full-time and had some Bible classes.

You want to see confusion? Go to www.blueletterbible.org and open up almost any chapter, and click on the “V” for version comparison, now THAT is confusion.

And one of the most unrecognized truth in this discussion is that the KJB is the still the silent standard in the background, because Christianity in the English-speaking world was stabilized with it and the modern versions are now done with a sideways glance to the wording in the KJB, but even more so, the doctrines that were brought to light by it. (Trinity, Great Commission, Salvation by Grace, the Mark of the Beast, much more).

There are no perfect translations of ANY WORK of any author. There are better thans. The KJV has some really good sections over some others and then some really bad ones.

—-
I have seen hundreds of “examples” of “bad” sections in the KJB so-called and they turned out to be silly, or stupid, results of ignorance of the English language, ignorance of doctrine, and other gaps in knowledge and understanding.

There are dozens passages in the scripture in fact that were obviously translations from other languages into the Hebrew. There is NOT ONE verse in ANY version that says God will NEVER anoint a translation from original languages for the future.

The NASB is a literal translation as well.


Of the proven corrupt Alexandrian manuscripts, which are as varied among themselves as the modern translations as well, but most likely use a Nestle-Aland Greek for the NT, based on the Westcott-Hart.

My recommendation for you is either an audio of the Bible or buy as used Kindle on Ebay. It has text to speech and will be read for you.


Here you have free downloadable audio of the King James, book by book, you can listen on-line too:
http://www.audiotreasure.com/indexKJV.htm

You find an audio read here too. Looks like they used to have the narration by Alexander Scourby online but the copyright holders of that recording revoked permission:
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html

That’s really too bad, because (1) Scourby’s rendition was, in my opinion at least, anointed because it was perfect, and you could not distinguish Scourby from the reading of it. In other words, you were listening to the scripture itself and Scourby was not in the way.

That is what my son has and it is wonderful. Let the Spirit of God lead you into all truth. To say the KJV is the only Bible to read is absolutely ridiculous and leaves all people who do not read English without the ability to get the “perfect” words of God! What kind of God is that?


That would be your “kind” of God more than that of KJB advocates because the idea of “original languages”, because since there is such variation in copies today extant in “original languages”, that HAS to lead by direct logical mathematics to the idea of “original autographs only”, which of course are out of reach of all of us.

And yet 95 percent of the modern translations in English from the “original autographs” are based on 5 percent of the copies that exist today (with all the inconsistency and contradictions among them), while 95 percent of the oldest copies are the basis for the King James Bible.

Not to mention that until English became a language – no one on the planet could have access to God’s words. Does this not make sense to you? Who has the right to declare any book perfect? The Bible is the plumb line by which you test which spirit is talking to you.


In the times of Moses and the prophets, there was only ONE TRIBE that had “access” to God’s words based on that speculation, why would it not be a problem for the “original languages” and be a problem today?

If you “Try the spirits”, you will abide by the spirit of the word, not the letter. By their own admission, the modern translations trust in the letter of the law, meaning the pick it apart with man’s wisdom and they give priority to the world’s ideas about translation techniques instead of giving first respect to the Word itself.

The modern translations even brag about their knowledge of the letter, and it loses spirit. A Haitian-born co-worker said she could tell that the KJB did have more spirit than the other one she had used (that her pastor used). I met a gal from Brazil at a shop in a mall reading the KJB who said the same thing. (Her pastor uses the NIV). She could not stand the other bland versions.

We already have some people preaching that the mark of the Beast cannot be an implanted chip (like the one they already market) because of the mis-translation in all the MV’s (modern versions) of the word “in”, preferring the Harvard-grad translation “on”.

We already have some people (including Christians) claiming Biblical basis for believing in Darwinian evolution because man’s worldly language wisdom says Genesis One has “ages” instead of “days”.

We have Sodom getting fire and brimstone for “lack of hospitality” instead of sodomy.

We have Jesus Christ expelled from congregations for being “divisive” instead of the heretic getting expelled. Democracy rules, even if the majority is heretical.

We have John’s gospel saying jesus is “a god” instead of just “God”.

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. – Matthew 4:4Every word of God [is] pure: he [is] a shield unto them that put their trust in him. – Proverbs 30:5

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 0 2 Corinthians 3:6

Also, look up words and there meanings by using a simple thing like the Strong’s Concordance (it is not perfect either but it is a start) at www.blueletterbible.org

These are just my thoughts when I saw your struggle. God is more concerned that you get to enjoy the records He had others write down, rather than who published it or which king commissioned it or other silly man made rules.


Those objections are owned by the anti-KJB demagogues that have Ms. Raylene confused as well. And backwards apparently.

They are the ones who claim to know best about “who published it”, they pick their words based on “other silly man made rules”, and everybody knows that the “records [God] had others write down” do not exist anywhere today, and we only have old copies of them through many copies of copies. And some of them are likely translations from other languages but treated as God’s word. By the anti-KJB demagogues themselves.

Bible Believing Ministries John Hinton

February 19, 2012
A bible from 1859.

Image via Wikipedia

Bible Believing Ministries John Hinton:
http://www.kjv-asia.com/bible_believing_ministries_john_hinton.htm

This is a deserving ministry.

The Devil has spread a flood of lies in all the world against the truth, and he’s using the most respected book of Christians to do it to Christians too.

But the truth will prevail, and the Gates of Hell will not stand against the truth.

Scriptural grounds for and against KJBO

February 19, 2012

The points they use against the KJB (‘What about generations past”) exposes their own bankruptcy on that very issue. How do they know which one of these has the “original Greek”? Well, they have their own “priestly scholars”, meaning the scribes and Pharisees they trust to tell them what the Greek means.

That is, they have to pick one and say “That one reference standard proves the KJB is wrong”.

Oh yeah? They can’t prove anything, because they claim that the only acceptable true standard to say XYZ is excactly what the Word of God says, are the long-gone “original autographs”.

Besides, they cannot point to any scripture at all that they can use to say that God would never preserve his word in later eras, in times to come, in a new language. Nor can they point to even one scripture that hints that God would be happy with one hundred “acceptable” variations from his Word to be used to cite “scipture”. Not one.

But I’ve seen enough examples here & elsewhere from people who do know Koine Greek (hundreds, maybe thousands) that even the Greek doesn’t help them.

There’s nothing conclusive on their side but the relevant verses are:

(1) the verses that promise preservation in Psalms,
(2) “Not one jot or tittle shall pass away till all be fulfilled” (*See note),
(3) “God is not the author of confusion”,
(4) No prophecy…is of private interpretation
(5) But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
(6) “Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and [that] there be no divisions among you; but [that] ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” (I Corinthians 1:10)