Archive for the ‘Bible’ Category

Come now, let us reason together, saith the Lord

October 23, 2016

One of my favorite verses to quote to others, and that from the Old Testament:

“Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.”

I really like to use it in discussions about abortion, just to show any women listening or participating that the idea is not to condemn them but to get them past the things.

I also like this verse because it talks about “reasoning together”.

 

 

Immediately after the Tribulation

September 4, 2013

Read the details in the Word itself, get away from what men say. Whatever you want to call the end-time events, the “gathering together” –what we usually call the Rapture– occurs, as Jesus said in Matthew 24, “immediately after the Tribulation“.  That’s after the plagues of the trumpets of Tribulation occur.

While we are with Jesus, the vials of the period we call “The Wrath” are poured upon the Earth and the plagues of the vials of the wrath of God are poured out on the ones left on the surface of the Earth.

At the end of “The Wrath”, that’s when Jesus descends from Heaven with a shout and the saints with him, and defeats the armies of the Antichrist at Armageddon.

Some point to the virgins and try to say the parable of the 10 virgins is about who gets raptured at any time and who gets “left behind”.  I do agree like Daniel predicts, most Christians will be killed in the flesh and liberated from their earthly bodies during the Tribulation. After all, in Daniel it says the Antichrist “shall make war against the saints, and shall overcome them”.

Some have said that Post-Tribulation Rapture belief causes people to be asleep and not ready. Quite the opposite as you can see below. “Those who are asleep in the church” are the ones who think they will not have to face the hardship of the Tribulation,. Then they use escape from the Tribulation to sell Salvation too. My missionary work was part of the the most alert and awake movements that grew amont the Jesus People movements of the 1960s and 1970s. I myself have led dozens and maybe hundreds to the Lord in three Latin American countries and in the States.

“Be ye also ready”.

In fact, when Jesus said, “for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of Man cometh”, he very well could have been talking about the any-minute pre-Trib Rapure, because just before that he said:

Too many Christian “scholars” have said Pre, so many have believed it:

43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

So be ye ready like the “goodman of the house”, as in “had known what watch the thief would come”, that’s when “he would have watched”. But so many Christians will have their house broken up by either (1) the surprise that ALL the saints were “left behind”, or (2) an even greater “falling away” from disillusionment by the ones who believed a false prophecy, or by the ones who thought they were saved and now think they are not.

 

The Rapture is a DIFFERENT EVENT from the SECOND COMING!


No kidding, if you mean the “gathering together” is different from the descent at Armageddon.

  In the Rapture no one but the Saved will know about it, like a thief in the night.


They’ll know about it (the Rapture) alright, at the end of the Tribulation, like Jesus said, just before the “parable of the fig tree”:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The “parable of the fig tree” represents the re-establishment of the geopolitical and quasi-heriditary nation of Israel, which would come before any of it but would lead into the generation that would see the return of Jesus Christ in the clouds.  This is probably before the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. “They that understand among the people shall instruct many”.

The Antichrists with the antichrists might very well tell the world that this is an alien invasion or something in fact.

  The Second Coming we will come with Jesus to set up his kingdom, and everyone on earth will see us coming and know their doom is upon them.  Jesus and his army will destroy all the works of the Devil at that time.  False teachers are in all the churches, just as all men have sinned.  You must study to see if these things are so as the Bereans did, you must not listen to false teachers.  Look it up yourself, do not read any preconceived things into it, do not believe any authority except the Bible itself.


I have studied this “like the Bereans”. We’ve been led to false doctrine (I was beforetimes myself once) by the Scofields and the Darbys and the Westcotts and the Horts. It might even be a doctrine of devils to get Christians to sleep through much of the Antichrist rule, just like they are right now with a lower-case “antichrist” in the White House… Huckabee would talk nice to him and lift him up if the big bad “O” ever went on his show. The guy could chip half the Christians in the country in their right hand and they might even think it’s okay because they can’t believe it’s Trib time.

Where was the standard for the “Word of God” before 1611?

July 23, 2013

The Word of God did surely exist somewhere as promised, say, in 1610, in one collection, possibly in Hebrew for the O.T. and Greek for the N.T. Possibly in Latin. There was not one known copy with evidence based on preservation. But the truth is I don’t know except for the promises.

That was nothing new in the history of Scripture. There was a time when a king inherited the throne, and ordered the Temple to be restored, and the priests found a copy of scriptures, hidden in the walls of the structures they were restoring. This righteous king called for repentance and to lift the scripture up again across the land.

No one could have pointed you to them, but there they were. In the case of the KJB

Casiodoro de Reina de Proel En el dominio públ...

Casiodoro de Reina de Proel

, God chose a different way to restore a collection of inspired Canon that you could point to. Therefore I agree with the use of the term Restoration Bible used by Stephen to (I presume) refer to the KJB. That’s why I also agree with the terminology of “restore God’s perfect Word” because it had lost its place.

The Word was certainly restored to its proper residence in one recognized Canon, that not only met the test by fire of its use by Spirit-filled people for more than three centuries in its language with no other translation even contemplated.

The fact of the scripture’s restoration to its place of honor with the KJB is seen in the fact that it quickly supplanted what you could call other “competing” translations, even beyond the reach of British or Anglican authority, and even beyond the “spirit-filled”. It was quickly dominant I believe even by the Calvinists of the day, the Puritans, and others.

Another evidence is the way it dominated the English language. Isaac Asimov once wrote that it was Shakespeare who stabilized the English language because the KJB was “just a translation”, which shows he doesn’t know so much about history as he puts on, or that he is “willfully ignorant”. Not for nothing he even says it, because it shows he recognized the Authorized Version/KJB as having dominance in the English language.

I can’t speak for Polish or Chinese, but Spanish certainly shows this as well. I’ve read the Casiodoro de Reina from times more or less contemporary to the KJB, and the Spanish is very, very different from the 1960 Revision, or even the 1905.

Biblical warring… / The natural family

July 10, 2013

Nothing wrong with a Bible warrior mentality, unless you’re thinking in the flesh and don’t understand metaphors. Biblical Christians fight against evil, lies, and the deceit of the devil, including the lies of those who call themselves Christians but violate the commandment to love their neighbors:

Ephesians 6:
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Ever since the apostles and disciples spread the Good News, they have been “ministering” to the needs of the world by fighting disease, fighting starvation, fighting infanticide, fighting slavery, fighting genocide, with whatever material means they have on hand to do it, but also with the one gift that changes hearts and makes the other changes possible: salvation in the name of Jesus Christ.

Now, if “military Christianity” means the warmongers among Evangelical Christians in the United States, they deserve the moniker, especially the “leaders”. The worst among them doing disservice to the Gospel are the ones demanding that Christians should do something to stop Muslims, saying they’re out to convert or kill us all. Whether they are or not is irrelevant to what Christians should do.

Brother Andrew of “Open Doors Ministries” warned Christians against going to war in the MIddle East, because, he predicted at the time, it would be disastrous for the Christians who actually live there,

and it would badly hurt the testimony of love of those Christians who are in the best position to actually win them to the religion that preaches “God is love”. Even Mosab Hassan Yousef, “Son of Hamas“, was won after the repulsion of the treatment of Muslims with Muslims in prison and was won over by the love of Christ in the Word itself: “Love thine enemies“. Islam has nothing like this.

(2) The picture of the girl is fine. There is too much not-privacy on the Internet. Once your visage is out there, it’s no take-backs. Another pic is okay, but apparently the objection shows that she’s not doing it to hide herself. The prayerful position of the girl in the picture represents her. We can all learn a lesson about caution. We don’t have to make it easy for the NSA for when they start rounding up the “dangerous” Christians.

P.S. My Mom raised us four kids, God bless her, as a single Mom. Faults and all, I loved her and appreciate it. Some do this better than others, but good can come of it. The natural, nuclear family is the ideal and the standard by which all of them are best measured, and should emulate, as much as possible providing the upbringing a father and a mother would provide.

I gratefully remember my visits with my Dad, a very fine example of a Dad. But I also remember fondly one Marvin, a “father figure” who I guess was part of the “Big Brothers” program. He took me out to ball games, bowling, gospel concerts, did “Daddy stuff” with me, an adult male figure. Rest in peace.

Believing God’s promises and the KJB is not idolatry. (Maybe “only-original-language” is, eh?)

July 9, 2013

I’m sharing my answer from another forum to this accusation:

You have made your KJB the most important article of faith. Again, I see this as very nearly bibliolatry. Very nice of you to affirm my observation.

—-
KJB believers’ foundation is the belief in the promises of God‘s word. That is what brings them to the KJBO position. This is something that has been repeated to modern version apologists over and over again, and they never seem to get past this lie that KJB believers woke up one day and just decided to reject all the other versions and worship that (whatever “that” is) instead of God. The truth is the opposite.

But try the phrase “original-language-idolatry”. A fantasy, a vain imagination, a theoretical construct. A belief that God did NOT provide for the preservation of every jot and tittle of his word in a manner consistent with clarity and that does not allow for confusion. Belief in his promises about his Word is better than trusting scribes and Pharisees. Call the KJB translators scribes if you want, just like your corrupted versions –any divergence from God’s best is corruption– but we do NOT trust in them.

You have NO BIBLICAL REASON AT ALL, just a tradition of man, to say that God did NOT preserve every jot and tittle of meaning “till all be fulfilled”. At least it’s not a wood and chaff idol. Oh wait! Nestle-Aland? Westcott Hort? Which “original language text” is YOUR idol?

In Honduras (even here) sometimes you buy honey that’s been cut with molasses. My wife can tell the difference. How can you, if you don’t know what honey really is?

God told us his words were sweeter than honey.

The God of the Bible said –and says– he would preserve his Word, not one jot or tittle would fall to the ground till all be fulfilled, and he is not the author of confusion. How can he teach “line upon line” if one line is over here (with a footnote) and the next one is over there?

Not even the most brilliant professors of theology can be sure of what something really says, according to their own doctrine!

And make no mistake. KJBO advocates do NOT NOT NOT rest their case upon an isolated faith in this particular text. It is the doctrine that believes God’s own word about preserving his Word, his own promise to preserve every jot and tittle, every bit of meaning, and he is not the “author” of confusion.

I you can’t have full conviction in a piece of God’s word, then it’s true that James 1:8 could apply, because if the foundation be shaken, who shall stand?

March 27, 1977, The biggest aviation disaster in history –to this day– took place in Tenerife, on the ground. Two aircraft slammed into each other. Some of you remember it. The fog killed visibility. 538 people died and there were more who were wounded.

I remember the reports from back then that mentioned a man who “miraculously” was completely unhurt. They didn’t mention him very much after the first couple of days and I found out why when I heard that man’s testimony.

Once upon a time I found an audio of his testimony. He took the trip instead of his business partner who had a late-minute matter come up. When the two planes hit, he said the passengers saw fire coming from the front of the plane, and people started screaming who saw the flames moving toward them.

He of course had his Bible with him. He stood straight up, all 300 pounds or so, and started waving his Bible in the air. “I’m standing on the Word! I’m standing on the Word! I’m standing on the Word!”

That’s his last memory from inside the plane, and he “blacked out”. He said he doesn’t know how, but the next thing he knew he was sitting on the top of this aircraft, to the side of a really big hole in the top of the plane –big enough for him to fit through– that was somehow directly above where his seat was.

They helped him down from there, but it is a testimony to someone who had faith in what God had promised, when it mattered. I cannot say I have “that much” faith in God’s promises, God’s word, but at least I do have faith that I can know exactly what he said, in terms that can be understood today. As he promised.

 

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

 

Palestine, Israel, Darby, Scofield, Dispensationalism, Jews and Salvation

July 4, 2013
Deir Yassin after occupation by Jewish forces,...

Deir Yassin after occupation by Jewish forces, April 1948 (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Palestine has been there for 2,000 years.

The Zionist guerrillas the Haganah and the Irgun and the Stern Gang “declared independence” in 1948 and battled the British, who quickly gave it up. The Irgun terrorized the Arabs with a strategically precision massacre in one or two small villages like at Deir Yassin where they did not leave even one woman or baby alive. Deir Yassin was strategically located for military and logistics reasons, and it did not matter to the Irgun, led by Begin, that the Arabs of Deir Yassin had declared their neutrality in the war between the Zionists and the Arab countries without, and had been a village that had been one of the friendliest to the Jews in what was ON THE MAPS at the time denoted as “Palestine”.

The Jews had wandered for about 1,900 years without a state, but now it’s the Palestinians –those are the Muslim and CHRISTIAN Arabs that have ancestral roots to Palestine. Many of them are Arabs that had properties and homes from generations before that they had to abandon in some cases, forced out, and in other cases fled in panic when they saw the massacres and saw that the Irgun terrorists were winning the battles. Western money and weapons flooded in for the Zionists, who had the advantage of advanced military training from the Western countries.

It’s also a religious state where Christians, especially Arab Christians, are treated as de facto second-class citizens. Jewish immigrants are immediately granted full citizenship status, defined as either offspring of a Jewish mother or certified as a bona fide religious Jew by some recognized rabbi. When Jewish immigrants become Christians, they have had to battle the state to retain their citizenship as Jews. “Messianic Jews”, meaning Jews who are self-identified Christians and recognize Jesus as the Messiah but follow the Torah and the Jewish customs, are despised culturally,

Jews for Jesus are especially scorned by the rabbis and politicians because (1) they enthusiastically witness to their Jewish neighbors about Jesus, and (2) they openly recognize that there is no special place for “Jewishness” in God’s eyes.

That’s one reason there is this “ecumenical” movement getting such strong support in the States. James Hagee has probably gotten millions in paybacks for his sycophantic preaching for the divine right of Jews to refuse Jesus. They want to tell Christians to witness to everybody else just not them.

The Jewish special-ness got started in the 19th century with John Darby in England and Cyrus Scofield in the States. Darby is sometimes called the “father of dispensationalism”. Darby hated the Bible so he rewrote it, with a text more bendable to promote dispensationalism. Divine right of Jewish ancestry.

Cyrus Scofield was a serial con man and womanizer with a series of divorces in his wake when it was culturally repugnant, but the most repugnant thing was he absconded with these rich women’s wealth, and refused to send child support for his own biological progeny. Finally he ended up in prison for embezzling in a bank of his employ.

Some group we know little about at the time supposedly “converted” him in prison, and set him up with Darby. Cyrus Scofield knew that Americans were still not so foolish as to deceived by a new “translation”, so he just rewrote the Bible by created copious notes in the margin that redefined the text to something else and created a labyrinth of verse cross-references that twisted the word to destructive deceit.

That’s how dispensationalism (and an incidental divine right-type destiny for Jews) got rewritten into the Bible. He divided up the Bible and said this part’s not for you, it was for the patriarchs. This other part is for you, but not for the Jews. This other part is for the Jews. Blah blah blah. Screwed up the timing of the “Second Coming” and everything.

So after Scofield, we got a series of commentators coming after that wrote basically the same things into the Bible and they started teaching it in seminaries (many of them “cemeteries”, where youth go to bury their faith).

And now, a “Fellowship of Christians and Jews”, where instead of obeying Mark 16:15 as in “first to the Jew”, they are learning how to be modern-day Jews!

“He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son hath not life; but the wrath of God abideth upon him”.–John 3:36.

To the Jews even the Old Testament prophets asked “Why will ye die?” and it is full of condemnations of the Jews for their sins. The state of Israel and the Muslim-dominated states nearby are cooperating on one thing at least: pretending that Palestinian Christians do not exist. They are un-persons in international Old Media.

But they do exist. God is ultimately in charge. His wheels of justice are slow but sure. David clearly recognized in one prayer that the wicked are “God’s sword”, meaning God uses them for judgment sometimes.

The hope for this world is in the Son of God, the Prince of Peace. Changing people one heart at a time. That’s why preaching at Muslims and this suicidal policy pushed by George Soros money of “duty to intervene” is not going to work for peace.

What’s going to work is the Brother Andrew approach: supporting the persecuted Christians already inside these countries. I have no doubt that the body of Christians in China has something to do with the thawing of tyranny there. Helping Hands Korea supports North Korean refugees in South Korea and in China, and I am sure he’s helping North Koreans inside their country (and not just Christians). I know this because I know the founder, worked with him in Phoenix for awhile. http://www.helpinghandskorea.org

That’s how the Roman Empire changed, how slavery ended in Europe after them, education spread.. One heart at a time…

Martin Luther and John Calvin: “Killers”?

July 2, 2013
Disputatio pro declaratione virtutis indulgent...

Disputatio pro declaratione virtutis indulgentiarum, 95 theses (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

This is in reply to this statement found on another web site I follow:  http://jamesjpn.net/

Luther, Calvin et al the supposed stalwarts of Protestant Christianity, are wolves in my opinion and the complete opposite of the apostle Paul. They were responsible for killing people AFTER their supposed conversion and break from Catholicism. They may not be Jesuit agents but they have walked right into the Devil’s schemes.

Calvin is known to have given his enthusiastic support for an execution for heresy in Geneva, in one case I know of. That’s just one. Calvinists are very adept at defending him and I won’t address that right now. The case of Martin Luther is not so simple.

If he supported the brutal suppression as reported, this would be another flaw. Some of the peasant actions were those of going into the churches that were built with their own contributions, in the clerical “theft by fraud” scheme of the penitence payments. They began destroying those evil idols that filled those buildings.

In my opinion, Martin Luther is partially or completely exonerated by Matthew 7:20, By their fruits ye shall know them. His was the pivotal moment, at great risk to himself, to expose the clerical autocracy. His opposition to the peasants uprising, by the way,  was based on a strange and unworkable hybrid of libertarianism and authoritarianism.

Libertarianism because he opposed the stealing and looting that the peasants were apparently saying was their right, and that only voluntary sharing of goods as in Acts 2 and Acts 4 was encouraged. Share your own voluntarily, but not someone else’s by force.

Authoritarianism because he invoked a misinterpretation of Romans 13 that is common to many. People forget to consider, even Martin Luther, that not all governments are “of God“, and not all government agents are “ministers of God”. If they are not “God’s ministers” (Rom 13:6), or “ministers of good”, they don’t qualify.

Also, the takeaway from Matthew 17 is that Jesus did not have much regard for any government taxation scheme. The children of tax collectors (the ones who tell you how much you have to pay in “tribute”) “are free”, he said, meaning that taxation is a form of “not free”, or “involuntary servitude”. Because the taxation deciders make sure of their own advantage in these schemes.

It usually holds though; David referred to “the wicked” as God’s sword, meaning God uses them to implement his judgements upon the people that are known by his name.

 

 

Man’s free will and salvation and God’s sovereignty

June 22, 2013
English: Resurrection of Christ

English: Resurrection of Christ (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

 

—A Calvinist said: “Are you saying that a man can come to faith in Jesus of his own free will apart from grace? Where do you find this in the Scripture?”

 

I don’t say that, because coming to faith in Jesus Christ, whether of his own free will or not, is accepting the grace of God by definition.

 

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

If I give you a free gift, you can take it or leave it. If you reject it, your loss. If you take it, and benefit from it, you cannot say you earned anything, you cannot say that you had anything to do with having that gift at all, because it was my doing and it was not your doing. And so with salvation.

 

God says, here’s salvation. Take it or leave it. Most people leave it. I do not claim to know how it works, but God does. “God is not a man, that he should lie”. We are created in God’s image, as sovereign deciders so to speak. The gift is for everyone, “whosoever will”.

 

If you concede that man has a free will that chooses salvation, but God is the one that chooses to put that will into his heart, this is a squishy deal. It is no better logic than to say that God chooses you for salvation because of the fact that you chose to receive the free gift.

 

It’s a mutually exclusive argument.

 

You can “accept” man’s free will in accepting salvation all you want to say you do, but then you contradict yourself by saying he made it impossible for them to accept salvation. Besides, you have to say that God decided to create the human race so he could throw the vast majority of them into hell, since he picks out some to save.

 

But then alas, that contradicts this verse that tells us the original purpose of hell:

 

Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

 

 

“They that understand among the people shall instruct many”

April 20, 2013
Entrance to Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensaco...

Entrance to Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola, Florida. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

If the 144,000 were not saved before the Tribulation, then there are pitifully and poorly prepared to be these: “They that understand among the people shall instruct many”.

God is not a “respector of persons”, so says his word, and the kingdom of God was taken from the “Jew according to the flesh” when Jesus said the kingdom was “taken from you and given to a nation bringing for the fruit thereof”.

The spirit quickeneth, the flesh profiteth NOTHING, “Say not ye we have Abraham to our father”, “Who is a Jew” asked Paul and then explained VERY CLEARLY who would inherit the promises made to Abraham. And that the promises to Abraham that “in thy seed” shall all the Earth was blessed came to fruition with the birth, life, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The genealogies list the lineage from Adam to Jesus Christ, so as to show that Jesus was fully human and descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and David, and of the tribe of Judah, literally. The records that they kept during those days provided another proof that Jesus was and is the Messiah. Now, with the records and the record-keeping dissolved into the ether together with the now diluted biological line, the “Jews according to the flesh” are not much more homogenous as such biologically than many nations on the planet, and they are surely no more Jewish than Ruth or Rahab or Uriah the Hittite.

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

In today’s world, there’s no way you can sort out which Jew-according-to-the-flesh (supposedly) is which tribe, and in fact, they have mixed Arab blood, Ethiopian, Persian, Turkish, and especially European. Even Biblically, Rahab and Ruth share in the Abrahamic line to Messiah, and there are plenty of tribes from the region that intermarried with the Jews in those days. Maybe half of David’s Mighty Men! Jesus made this point too!

So there is another purpose in the numbering of “them which were sealed” as 144,000. I do believe they are probably leaders especially anointed for leading the sheep during the Tribulation. But it would not be “God’s nature” to let babes lead babes with no spiritual guidance. The Word says so:

Isaiah 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Lots of people who had before believed the Rapture was before the Tribulation will eventually come to reconsider, because they don’t always just blindly follow Establishment Christianity.

Kent Hovind and many others have studied the issue and changed in position . So did the ones that made this video to explain themselves:

Hal Lindsey‘s first book, The Late Great Planet Earth, was one of the first on Bible prophecy I read as I was led to faith in Christ and God prepared me to serve him in for street witnessing and missionary work. He introduced the book explaining that he approached the subject from scratch, meaning threw out everything he’d heard and started studying straight from scripture.

He had scriptures that drew an obvious straightforward parallel to events and times, as I remember it. Verses for all of it. I don’t remember enough detail to compare to what I know now after doing the same thing as a Berean. But he candidly admitted in his chapter about the Rapture that he had NOT found ANY clear scripture to support the event as coming before the Tribulation, but he believed it anyway. As many theology doctorates at the time, he used the prop that it was not in “God’s nature” to make us go through the Tribulation. The “evidence” is some of the incidents where God’s leading or prophecy saved his saints.

It’s a stretch to make that leap of logic. But even then he did not realize the disconnect between (1) the plagues of the trumpets and (2) the plagues of the vials of the Wrath of God that come with (after) the last trump that shall sound. The last vial of the wrath of God is when we return back down with Jesus (“saints with him”) and he descends “with a shout”.

More Post-Tribulation truth

April 16, 2013
English: photograph of Cyrus Ingerson Scofield...

English: photograph of Cyrus Ingerson Scofield (Scoundrel and deceiver of the gullible)

Hal Lindsey is trying to say that Sodom and Godmorrah were types of the coming Tribulation, because God took Lot and his family out before judgment.

“Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do anything till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.”

But God does that, because although Jesus said we’d have tribulation, we do not get the worst of the plagues at the end of the three and a half year period of Tribulation.

The Hebrews were still in Egypt when the ten plagues hit, and then they were taken out. The prophets were still in Israel when it fell to Babylon. The priests (and the faithful) were still in Jerusalem when they believed the prophets enough to welcome Alexander and the troops to Jerusalem. He was so satiated by the prophecies he let them keep all their arms and legs and money. The Jewish Christian faithful –some of them– were still in Jerusalem when Rome came and scattered them all to everywhere else.

Sodom and Gomorrah, God had promised Abraham. Lot had a “righteous soul”. Their judgment and fire and brimstone was total, universal, not one soul left alive.

Some judgments, we get warnings. There will be refuges for some Christians even during the Tribulation. Not just the jungle.

Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

But here’s where we agree. For sure, the Lord WILL take us up BEFORE the worst of plagues. That’s what we call the Wrath of God.

First, the Tribulation. At the end of that, at the last trumpet, “Rapture”. Then the vials of the wrath of God are poured out upon the earth, the absolute worst of the plagues. With the last of those vials, that’s Jesus Christ and his saints with him on white horses visiting Armageddon on the Beast and his minions.

And even so, some will live through even the Wrath into the “Millenium”, the thousand-year reign of Jesus Christ.

All the verses are in context:

Isaiah 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

But when one of them declares something plainly, it’s best to go with that one:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The only way to dismiss Matthew 24 is to cut it out of the Bible if you’re a Gentile, like the 19th entry widows’ swindler and convicted embezzler Cyrus Scofield in America, and his contemporary, the hustler of spiritual intellectuals in the old staid kingdom of the British Empire, John Darby. John Darby hated the Bible so much he wrote his own Bible and called it a “translation”.

The two of them popularized the newly invented pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine on the two sides of the Atlantic.

The memo apparently didn’t make it to South Africa. An evangelist came to Miami once in the 1980s, and he said he never heard of such a thing as a pre-Tribulation Rapture until he came to the States. I’m sure the Americans have spread it more since then though, and history has been revised.

The one (two?) early-church quotes I’ve seen, rare as ken’s teeth, are ambiguous at best. And they don’t hold a candle to Paul’s own admonitions in the epistles that the day of of the Lord isn’t coming until the Son of Perdition is revealed first. Their talk would not have been about the Judgment, they’re looking for the Lord’s coming back.

There will be some places that serve as refuge during the Tribulation. He will set up in Israel, but even some players in the neighborhood

Daniel 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.

Revelation 13 says all nations, tribes and languages, so that means it’s a UN-NWO thing, or its twin. But from Daniel 11 we see he has his hands full with international intrigues, conspiracies, and nations that don’t want to buckle.

They are probably planning on neutralizing the United States with a civil war and, according to more prophecies, on “restoring order” with help from other nations. The USA gets a dose of its own interventionist medicine, you might say, the most recent generations (of Christians, too) being led to war.

They will probably bring America down a few notches, they can sure create havoc with their fiat currency whip and their agents. But Americans are a rebellious bunch and will not fade away quietly.

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.